Welcome everyone to our Talent Sustainability webinar. Before we begin this powerful discussion, I’d love to introduce our incredible panelists who bring decades of experience in HR, learning, and development.
00:03:31 – 00:11:01
Christine: Riley, let’s start with you. What does a sustainable talent strategy mean, and why is it critical for organizations?
Riley Cashman: This is an exciting topic for organizations of all sizes. To lay the foundation, let’s consider the challenges HR and learning and development teams face. Operating budgets are shrinking, often squeezing HR and recruiting the most. Talent acquisition is costly—external recruiters charge 15-20% of a candidate’s salary, and even internal recruiting systems like ATS and job boards are expensive and not always effective. Turnover is another major cost.
A study from the American Management Association shows that organizations filling 25% of middle management roles with external hires experience double the turnover compared to those promoting internally. Senior executives hired externally also fail at higher rates than internal promotions.
At its core, a sustainable talent strategy focuses on developing your workforce to drive engagement, retention, and upskilling, creating a promotable employee pipeline. This means identifying high performers who can step into senior roles through company-provided professional development. Benefits include reduced costs, shorter onboarding times (it takes about three months for an employee to ramp up, longer for senior roles), and increased loyalty. Recognition and development are key retention drivers across industries, fostering engaged, happy employees who stay and positively impact company culture.
00:07:06 – 00:09:37
Riley Cashman: Years ago, at a Brooklyn tech startup with zero HR budget but high growth goals, we got creative with talent acquisition. We focused on succession planning by hiring paid summer interns—career switchers looking to pivot their paths. We sourced them from job fairs, invited them to an open house to meet hiring managers, and ensured only the most excited candidates applied. We promised full-time entry-level offers to successful interns.
After the program, we extended offers to 19 of 20 interns at a low cost per hire. They were “test-driven” for skill and culture fit, and each manager provided in-depth training to ensure their success. This approach shows how succession planning and creative talent acquisition can build a sustainable talent strategy, scalable to any seniority level with out-of-the-box thinking.
Christine: That’s impressive, Riley! Your internship-to-full-time model is a game-changer, especially for younger talent transitioning from college to the workforce. Millennials have highlighted the challenges of this shift, and programs like yours help them acclimate to today’s and tomorrow’s workforce.
I also want to emphasize a point you made: many companies mistake talent acquisition for a talent strategy. At a previous company, I saw budgets poured into hiring 200 people when only 100 were needed, expecting 50% attrition. That’s a waste of time, resources, and culture. A true talent strategy aligns current skills with future needs, avoiding constant rehiring. It costs $50,000 on average to hire someone but only $5,000 to invest in them—a no-brainer!
00:07:06 – 00:09:37
Christine: How do you secure executive buy-in to create a culture of sustainable talent development? Dan, let’s hear from you.
Dan Tobin: The best way is to build a business case tied to business goals, not just training metrics like ROI, which I argue against in my books. Understand the business—talk to managers about what keeps them awake at night and what skills their teams need to improve results. Years ago, at a session with an ASTD speaker, a training director was asked to justify their budget with an ROI study. My advice? Start updating your resume. If the CEO asks for that, they’ve already decided your budget’s not delivering.
I once sat with heads of training from major New York banks who worried they lacked MBAs to understand the business. That’s no excuse. Get out, talk to people, and align training initiatives with company goals, not just behavioral objectives. In my 40 years, I’ve never been denied funding for a training initiative when it directly impacted business outcomes.
Christine: Love that, Dan! Your approach is honest and people-focused. If executives question your value, it’s time to rethink your strategy or role. Stephanie, you’ve worked in startups with tight budgets and high hiring needs. How do you secure buy-in?
Stephanie Marie: I echo Dan’s point about making a business case. Without a direct link to business outcomes, your argument won’t hold. Startups often lack robust HR systems or data, leading to scattershot approaches. Instead, use a gap analysis during goal-setting. Ask: “You want to double revenue next year—why can’t we do that now? What skills or talent gaps are holding us back?” Engage leaders in identifying what it takes to meet goals.
This makes it hard for executives to say no, as you’re addressing clear barriers. Retrospectively, if goals are missed, highlight talent or attrition issues. Also, consider the hidden cost of HR and training team burnout from constant rehiring due to poor strategies. Insert yourself into goal-setting conversations, tie talent development to specific objectives, and justify investments by showing how they close gaps.
Christine: Spot on, Stephanie. HR burnout is real—I’ve been there. Constantly recycling people without investing in them leads to disengagement and missed goals. HR professionals deserve a pat on the back for their efforts. Aligning talent strategies with company values is crucial. If a company is fine with high turnover, it’s a red flag—you’re there to cultivate culture and people, not churn through them.
00:21:47 – 00:28:30
Christine: Ali, who really owns talent development within a company?
Ali Moss: It’s a partnership, not just HR’s responsibility. Business leaders, people managers, and internal champions drive culture and change. HR and L&D facilitate by providing tools, resources, frameworks, and best practices, but we’re not the sole owners. At Medium Math, we position HR as a true business partner, not a silo. Immersing ourselves in the business helps diagnose needs and build stronger partnerships, aligning talent development with organizational goals.
00:21:47 – 00:28:30
Ali Moss: This year, we launched our first global leadership development program for 150 leaders, a six-month journey ending in November. Instead of an off-the-shelf approach, we conducted focus groups and one-on-one interviews with leaders from first-time managers to C-suite, plus non-managers, to understand their needs. The program was tailored to those insights, making it an easier sell to leadership. Participants felt heard and valued, knowing the program was an investment in their growth as existing or future leaders. This collaborative approach drove engagement and reinforced their role in pushing the business forward.
Christine: That’s fantastic, Ali. How did participants feel throughout the process?
Ali Moss: They felt good—heard and part of the journey. We emphasized that participating was an investment in them, requiring time but equipping them with tools to excel. They saw themselves as formal or functional leaders driving the business forward, which made the program well-received.
Christine: That’s key. People leave organizations due to poor managers or lack of development. A gap analysis, as Stephanie mentioned, bridges the current state to the future state, ensuring employees feel supported and heard.
00:21:47 – 00:28:30
Christine: Riley, Stephanie, any examples of building similar programs?
Stephanie Marie: At Insight Data Science, we help people land first jobs in new industries. After two years, many want to move on, often due to poor manager relationships or lack of growth opportunities. Gallup research shows 70% of engagement is tied to managers. To retain talent, develop managers’ competence and confidence through training and coaching. Managers face complex human problems, and training alone isn’t enough—coaching bridges the gap between theory and practice.
Also, ensure employees feel competitive in the job market. If they feel stuck due to rusty skills, they’ll disengage. Offer growth opportunities to make them want to stay, not feel trapped. This is especially critical for startups with limited budgets but challenging problems that attract ambitious talent.
Christine: Great point, Stephanie. Training and development are change management. The ADKAR model—Awareness, Desire, Knowledge, Ability, Reinforcement—applies here. Building awareness of gaps, fostering desire for change, providing knowledge, enabling ability, and reinforcing through coaching and goals are critical. Reinforcement is key—it takes five to seven repetitions for behaviors to stick.
00:35:48 – 00:45:33
Christine: Dan, you’ve built many programs. Walk us through processes and retention measurements that work.
Dan Tobin: Years ago, I spoke with a VP at an electric company with 3,000 employees. Seven of nine top leaders, including himself, were nearing retirement, with no succession plan. He dismissed leadership development, citing a costly program that yielded no change. The issue? The employee returned from a great program but was told to “get back to work” without applying what he learned.
At a 1,500-employee company struggling post-layoffs, I designed a two-year leadership development program for 36 high-potential mid-level managers. It included four elements:
Despite a 50-75% estimated attrition risk, we retained 35 of 36 participants. When employees see investment in their future, they stay.
00:43:18 – 00:45:33
Dan Tobin: Here are eight measurable outcomes:
Christine: That’s powerful, Dan. At Pearson Education, we built a manager and leadership development program starting at the associate level. Our CEO, Jim Banky, gave me free rein to educate managers. The most impactful part was Jim attending sessions to hear feedback and connect with employees beyond 360s. This visibility showed employees they were valued, driving engagement and retention.
00:43:18 – 00:45:33
Christine: Let’s wrap up with a quick “Start, Stop, Continue” exercise. What should organizations start, stop, and continue doing to build sustainable talent strategies? Ali, kick us off with a “start.”
Ali Moss: Seek and build internal development programs. At Medium Math, we have a career accelerator and rotational program led by subject matter experts and aspiring leaders. These help employees move across functions (e.g., sales to engineering), fostering growth and retention within the organization.
Riley Cashman: Take a project management approach to talent initiatives. Set milestones and checkpoints to course-correct early, ensuring resources deliver results.
Stephanie Marie: Start: Use data to identify knowledge gaps before launching programs. Data-driven evidence secures leadership buy-in by pinpointing where training is needed.
Dan Tobin: Spending too much time in your office. Get into the business—talk to employees, have lunch with them, and understand their needs and ideas firsthand.
Stephanie Marie: Building non-scalable programs. Pilot small to gather qualitative data, but design with growth in mind to avoid starting over as the company scales.
Christine: Support each other as HR and L&D professionals. Champion one another, share knowledge, and educate others to build sustainable strategies.
Riley Cashman: Engage leadership teams to ensure buy-in. Like culture, talent strategies need top-down support to succeed.
Ali Moss: Leverage tools like employee engagement surveys to collect feedback on growth opportunities. Add relevant questions and insert yourself into strategic conversations.
Christine: Thank you, panelists, for an incredible discussion! I hope everyone gained valuable insights. Happy Halloween—stay safe, especially on the rainy East Coast! If you need help with talent sustainability, my company was built to support HR professionals like you. Check out Dan’s books for more wisdom, and never stop learning and growing. Thank you, and have a great day!
